qzeebrella: (canadiancombadge)
[personal profile] qzeebrella
okay, I have a possibly weird question for any of my flist who would like to chime in with an opinion. I especially would like to hear from the Americans on my list about the below question, but it would also be very interesting to hear what the flisters from other places besides the US think of it to. So here goes, with some background first...

in 1995 "Quebec voted on whether to separate from Canada" and become it's own sovereign nation. It was huge news here in Canada and there is still an active Separist movement, though it doesn't seem to be moving for another plebicite in the near future. The question that occured to me was:

"Okay, so there are a lot of Mormons (Latter Day Saints) in Utah and a lot of their beliefs are unique to their faith, if they all got together and started pushing for the Utah senate to hold a referendum on whether or not to separate from the U.S.A. and become their own independent nation, what would happen?"

So? Opinions? Thoughts? Is it even theoretically possible for one of the states within the United States to separate? A very curious and sometimes odd Canadian wants to know.

Date: Jun. 28th, 2010 07:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cicerothewriter.livejournal.com
Interesting question (and I vaguely recall the Quebec vote, which was interesting to see played out). I'm pretty sure that the Civil War or "War Between the States" (whichever is more popular these days) proved that a state cannot secede from the Union. Alaska and Texas have a relatively large separatist following, but as far as most of us are concerned it is far, far from being a serious issue.

Date: Jun. 29th, 2010 05:19 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] qzee.livejournal.com
so, very unlikely and even if they decided to try, the U.S. government would not be amused. Good to know.

Date: Jun. 28th, 2010 07:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kayjayuu.livejournal.com
US Secession from Wikipedia

See: our Civil War.

Technically, a state has the right to secede. However, the Federal government looks down on it, to the point of forcibly keeping a state in the union. Yet another dissolution of Constitutional powers alloted to the states via the Tenth Amendment. See also US Federalism.

On an interesting note, both Texas and Hawaii were sovereign countries when they jointed the US. (The 13 states preceding the ratification of the Constitution were also independent bodies, but that was different.) They could theoretically get away with leaving with a lot less, um, violence? (as if). Texas makes noises now and then (well, Texans make noises; their legislature is more and more diluted into Federal government-dependent wimps -- not that there's anything wrong with that. Technically.).

Date: Jun. 29th, 2010 05:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] qzee.livejournal.com
well, if North Dakota ever wants to try to join us, maybe I could talk our Armed Forces into helping you guys out.

That said, it's good to know what's technically allowed, even when it's known that doing what's technically allowed would be frowned upon.

Date: Jun. 28th, 2010 08:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kyrdwyn.livejournal.com
In theory, it's possible, but the last time it was tried, we ended up in a nasty Civil War

I have seen groups calling for a National Constitution Amendment which would allow for a state to secede, if there was a certain vote by the state populace and the state had to assume a portion of the National debt, give automatic leases for any military bases within the state, etc. Pretty complicated procedure, but in theory, it could work. If it ever passed and was added to the US Constitution.

Would beat another war. Do I think we could end up in another war? Always possible. I'd like to think we wouldn't, but.

My 2 cents.

Date: Jun. 29th, 2010 05:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] qzee.livejournal.com
that would be an interesting amendment, I'd like to think we Canadians wouldn't end up in a civil war either - not having ever had one we wouldn't know what to do. then again, some of our comedians say we did have a civil war and that it happened in a bar in Ontario somewhere, involved a dozen people and one casualty...

or that we had one and that it didn't survive Louis Riel's hanging.

Date: Jun. 29th, 2010 01:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] montgomeryscott.livejournal.com
It's not going to happen.

Date: Jun. 29th, 2010 05:17 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] qzee.livejournal.com
good to know. I guess that's just one more way we Canadians are different. I'm reasonably sure we would have let Quebec go peacefully if it had voted to go.

Date: Jun. 29th, 2010 10:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] iulia_linnea.livejournal.com
I think it would become v. difficult to be a Mormon; we're not particularly accepting of states trying to secede in these parts.

Date: Jul. 18th, 2010 01:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aminuleen.livejournal.com
Hi I'm from Salt Lake City Utah. And I really hope that never happens. I would be devestated.

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